Which kind of tire warmers??
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Thread: Which kind of tire warmers??

  1. #1
    KF810
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    Which kind of tire warmers??

    For next season, I plan on running on Pilot Race tires for the track season and think it's probably a good idea to invest in some warmers. I know what they do, but other than that, I don't know much about them. I was thinking of the set that STT has on their site, but then I saw these on Ebay..Item#140021731318. Any certain features that I should look for? Thanks!

  2. #2
    slanger
    Guest

    Re: Which kind of tire warmers??

    i would recommend the chicken hawk warmers, i use the pole position three temp setting ones, but the standards will do. i do most of my trackdays with STT and the ones they offer look/feel rather cheaply. get the chickenhawk

  3. #3
    KF810
    Guest

    Re: Which kind of tire warmers??

    So why do you need one with different temp. settings?

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  5. #4
    tribaltim
    Guest

    Re: Which kind of tire warmers??

    What's a tire warmer do? I mean I don't understand the concept but then again I have never had the oppertunity to ride on a track...

  6. #5
    slanger
    Guest

    Re: Which kind of tire warmers??

    Quote Originally Posted by KF810 View Post
    So why do you need one with different temp. settings?
    you may need to heat the tire up to temp in a shorter amount of time... if you have a hard compound tire you would want to heat it on high, whereas if you have a soft compound tire you would want to heat it on low as not to overheat the tire.

    tire warmers save the tires from cold tears, and when u hit turn one at the track you can give it 100% from the start. most race rubber doesnt just take a lap to heat up. it takes about 3-4 laps, and sometimes longer to get full heat throughout the tire carcus.

    here is the link to a website, if you are on the track you should def learn to read your tires, they can tell you alot about your setup and if you have problems or if you are getting it right.

    Feel The Track! Tire unusual markings and wear patterns

  7. #6
    sheepofblue
    Guest

    Re: Which kind of tire warmers??

    It would be nice if they showed a good one also.

  8. #7
    Nickelii
    Guest

    Re: Which kind of tire warmers??

    I also use Chickenhawk. They work very well and allow me to go balls out as soon as I hit the track. They also preserve the life of the tire, multiple heat cycles will harden a tire and result in grip loss. I put one heat cycle on my tires each track day. Guys who don't use them, probably put 8 on in day.

  9. #8
    tribaltim
    Guest

    Re: Which kind of tire warmers??

    Quote Originally Posted by slanger View Post
    you may need to heat the tire up to temp in a shorter amount of time... if you have a hard compound tire you would want to heat it on high, whereas if you have a soft compound tire you would want to heat it on low as not to overheat the tire.

    tire warmers save the tires from cold tears, and when u hit turn one at the track you can give it 100% from the start. most race rubber doesnt just take a lap to heat up. it takes about 3-4 laps, and sometimes longer to get full heat throughout the tire carcus.

    here is the link to a website, if you are on the track you should def learn to read your tires, they can tell you alot about your setup and if you have problems or if you are getting it right.

    Feel The Track! Tire unusual markings and wear patterns

    Sweet thanks..

  10. #9
    KF810
    Guest

    Re: Which kind of tire warmers??

    Great info Slanger, thanks ! So is there an "optimum" temp.? I saw one set that went to 212 degrees, which sounds like overkill to me, but then again I don't know much about race tires yet. In between sessions at a track day, should you just wrap the tires, or turn the warmers on each time?

  11. #10
    slanger
    Guest

    Re: Which kind of tire warmers??

    Quote Originally Posted by KF810 View Post
    Great info Slanger, thanks ! So is there an "optimum" temp.? I saw one set that went to 212 degrees, which sounds like overkill to me, but then again I don't know much about race tires yet. In between sessions at a track day, should you just wrap the tires, or turn the warmers on each time?
    while at the track, talk to the tire vendors for the race rubber... not your local dealer... the race tire vendors will know all the info on their tires. find the optimum temp for your tire, then put it to the suggested air pressure and go from there... get one of those infared thermometer to read the temp of the tire itself. check the temp before you go out and as soon as you come in. adjust your pressure as needed. you should atleast turn your warmers on low between every session,

    i usually use the medium settings between sessions and low during the extra hour for lunch. if you are staying for two trackdays, at the end of your first day you should just put the warmers on the tires unplugged after the last session and let them slowly cool to ambient temperature

    different brand tires act differently, talk to the tire vendors and find out all the info you can, stick with one tire...

    if your going to the track i recommend dunlop race rubber, i hate their street tires, but they make the best race compound tires in the world. the dunlop sportmax slicks and 209 DOTs are the best race compound tires.

  12. #11
    KF810
    Guest

    Re: Which kind of tire warmers??

    Great info again! All of this will come in handy next year. I just wish there were tire vendors at the days that i go to...

  13. #12
    CBRVFR
    Guest

    Re: Which kind of tire warmers??

    Kyle -

    You can email the tire companies for the info, or call their race support 800 #'s. .

    Also, unless you get the new Al Gore Solar-Powered tire warmers, you'll obviously have to lug along a generator.

    I thought I'd need warmers for the slicks I'm running, but the fact is that on a warm day, they're pretty much ready to go for track day purposes.I don't HAVE to get into the first turn at warp speed. The DOT race tires I had previously never really needed them either..

    I wonder what the real effect of the heat cycles is on the life cycle of the tires, given the level of riding that we are actually doing, and the grip we actually require. Taking into consideration the the number of track days we are able to do annually, how many seasons of use will it take to save the cost of acquiring one set of tires?

    Of course, when I consider purchases such as these, I take into account the high cost of hospital jello as an alternative..

  14. #13
    eyauch
    Guest

    Re: Which kind of tire warmers??

    Quote Originally Posted by CBRVFR View Post
    Kyle -

    You can email the tire companies for the info, or call their race support 800 #'s. .

    Also, unless you get the new Al Gore Solar-Powered tire warmers, you'll obviously have to lug along a generator.

    I thought I'd need warmers for the slicks I'm running, but the fact is that on a warm day, they're pretty much ready to go for track day purposes.I don't HAVE to get into the first turn at warp speed. The DOT race tires I had previously never really needed them either..

    I wonder what the real effect of the heat cycles is on the life cycle of the tires, given the level of riding that we are actually doing, and the grip we actually require. Taking into consideration the the number of track days we are able to do annually, how many seasons of use will it take to save the cost of acquiring one set of tires?

    Of course, when I consider purchases such as these, I take into account the high cost of hospital jello as an alternative..
    Right he is. I believe Abtech has posted something similar in the past about slicks and heat cycles. You may want to do a search on that. I think he also makes very good points and has the history to back it up

  15. #14

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    Re: Which kind of tire warmers??

    I have watched this thread for the past few days and wasn't going to post since there were a few "authorities" posting some rather suspect information.

    For the record, I don't think you will find any serious racers or Crew Chiefs recommend keeping your tires on warmers all day to keep from generating heat cycles.

    The polymers in the compound have a finite life and keeping them at track temperature for an extended amount of time will do exactly the same thing that running them continuously on the track for a similar time period (ala endurance racing) will do to them. It will cure the compounds and make them old and greasy prematurely. This will actually be much worse than repeated heat cycles all else being equal.

    Based on the recommendations of several of the manufacturers of both racing tires and tire warmers, you should never use the warmers for more than 1 hour prior to running them, especially at full temp. Some warmers have a low temp setting that will slow the curing process, but really don't stop a heat cycle from occuring once you get them on the track (similar to sitting in the sun on a hot day).

    Also, racing tires don't take several laps to get up to temp as someone mentioned. I have made several measurements from stone cold and the difference in temp after 2 laps and 5 laps is less than 10 degrees on Michelin, Dunlop and Bridgestone slicks.

    Another point that was mentioned is the "optimum" temperature for a tire when fully heated. Buried in the specs for most tires in use today with the possible exception of some of the Diablo Corsas and Pilot Powers, you will find the optimum temperature measured in three places across the width of the footprint is 185 degrees fahrenheit.

  16. #15
    slanger
    Guest

    Re: Which kind of tire warmers??

    i am no authority on the subject but i have taken a few siminars on tires, specifically motorcycle tires, even more specific sportbike street and racing rubber. some held by michelin, and good year/dunlop.

    the tire manufacturers recommend keeping them on a low setting inbetween sessions, yes turn them on atleast one hour before use, but you dont always have an hour.... those same crew chiefs and serious racers change tires after every session...... for a club level, once a month trackday rider, we cant afford new race rubber every day or some of us every weekend, so heat cycles are important to keep cold tears from destroying the tire

    if you over heat a tire it will kill the life of the tire. say tire's maximum performance is 'X'. the first time you heat the tire up your performance and grip level will be 'X', the second time it will be X-1, the third x-2, and so on, yes if you bake your tire on high all day they will get greasy, slick, and hard,

    a racing compound tire does take a lot longer to heat up compared to a street tire. just bc the contact patch temp is 185 degrees doesnt mean the carcass is at operating temperature.

    there are more than just a couple factors in todays tires, they are technologically advanced, i race the ccs amateur circuit and i doubt i will ever ride the limits of my tires

    the next time you go to the track, do your first couple sessions on cold race rubber, then after lunch switch to warmers

  17. #16
    slanger
    Guest

    Re: Which kind of tire warmers??

    also not to get off topic, but i notice some of you guys are from michigan, i am currenty working in detroit, what is there to do around here, anything special i should see?? just shoot me a pm if theres anything cool

  18. #17

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    Re: Which kind of tire warmers??

    Quote Originally Posted by slanger View Post
    i am no authority on the subject but i have taken a few siminars on tires, specifically motorcycle tires, even more specific sportbike street and racing rubber. some held by michelin, and good year/dunlop.

    the tire manufacturers recommend keeping them on a low setting inbetween sessions, yes turn them on atleast one hour before use, but you dont always have an hour.... those same crew chiefs and serious racers change tires after every session...... for a club level, once a month trackday rider, we cant afford new race rubber every day or some of us every weekend, so heat cycles are important to keep cold tears from destroying the tire

    if you over heat a tire it will kill the life of the tire. say tire's maximum performance is 'X'. the first time you heat the tire up your performance and grip level will be 'X', the second time it will be X-1, the third x-2, and so on, yes if you bake your tire on high all day they will get greasy, slick, and hard,

    a racing compound tire does take a lot longer to heat up compared to a street tire. just bc the contact patch temp is 185 degrees doesnt mean the carcass is at operating temperature.

    there are more than just a couple factors in todays tires, they are technologically advanced, i race the ccs amateur circuit and i doubt i will ever ride the limits of my tires

    the next time you go to the track, do your first couple sessions on cold race rubber, then after lunch switch to warmers
    Your recommendations do go along with a lot of recent chatter I have heard at various trackdays etc., but don't agree with either what I have personally experienced nor what I have been told by Steve Brubaker at Dunlop, or Maury Essen at Bridgestone or Kevin Graham from Pirelli Canada. I have been racing both as a regional expert and pro for a "while" including several seasons of running the WERA Endurance series.

    Contrary to popular opinion, many experts/pros do not change their tires every session. Many times they will go out and scuff them for a few laps (X) and then run 2 or 3 sprints on the same set (X-1, X-2, X-3). They are usually at their best between X-1 and X-2.

    In my opinion, warmers are for the first two or three turns in a sprint race and have little value beyond that. I have owned some dozen or so sets of tire warmers over the years and even though I carry them around all the time, I rarely use them for anything other than racing or an extremely cold track day on new rubber (and usually for the first session only).

  19. #18
    SPEED
    Guest

    Re: Which kind of tire warmers??

    Quote Originally Posted by abtech View Post
    In my opinion, warmers are for the first two or three turns in a sprint race and have little value beyond that. I have owned some dozen or so sets of tire warmers over the years and even though I carry them around all the time, I rarely use them for anything other than racing or an extremely cold track day on new rubber (and usually for the first session only).

  20. #19
    KF810
    Guest

    Re: Which kind of tire warmers??

    Quote Originally Posted by slanger View Post
    also not to get off topic, but i notice some of you guys are from michigan, i am currenty working in detroit, what is there to do around here, anything special i should see?? just shoot me a pm if theres anything cool


    um....nothing...it's Michigan.

  21. #20
    KF810
    Guest

    Re: Which kind of tire warmers??

    too much info....my head hurts !

    So I should just hold off on them there tire warmers gadgets for when I go racin, is that what yer tryin ta say?

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